IYH Wrestling

Can you tie him to though numbers? no besides some merchandising and I can point to 3 or 4 different numbers to prove he's not helping and by the way amazing job avoiding the question of how I didn't give TNA a chance.


Here I'll clear that up for you. You told me i had no proof that Ric Flair didn't want to work for TNA and wasn't desperate for money. I showed you video evidence of Ric Flair saying twice he had zero interest in working for TNA and burying everyone who had a major role in TNA. Then you started claiming that the videos werent good enough evidence. As for the not responsible for their actions you claimed that CM Punk has zero responsibility for his character because the writers somehow are responsible for everything these guys do.



Okay excuse me instead of Champion I should have said focus my bad. However every one of though shows he was either Main Eventing or champion or challenging so therefore he has a HUGE responsibility for though shows failures. However I'm sure you'll make up some bullshit how CM Punk has zero responsibility for failing you've only been doing it since August.

Where's that thread again... I'd LOVE to see where they only thing I said was "You're wrong, XT. That video proves nothing!" I'm sure that was my only argument, too


Sorry, dude, you can't be excused for this. You claim to state "facts", but then you post something like the above w/ no facts at all... And as far as those show failures, Cena was in the same amount of PPVs with the same amount of time as champion... Or how about Del Rio? He seems to have been a big focus for those shows... I'm not saying it's either of their faults, but that's where you lack perspective... Your focus is solely on Punk and nothing else...

It's that and your so-called "facts" that make all of this so entertaining...

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Donny: "It's Dirk fucking Benedict!"... Dirk: "I seldom use my middle name."

How is Dave Lagana any better than Russo? Russo at least has some success, even if it was 15 years ago. This guy is just a failed writer for WWE. The IWC attacks WWE writing and hates WWE with a passion. Then the embrace this tool because he does a podcast. What a bunch of morons.

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CAUTION. You are entering a NO SPIN ZONE!

Vann how many times have you ask me to do this and I've told you I have no urge to spend 20 minutes of my life looking back at threads from what 10 months ago. I don't really care enough to find it to be honest with you.



like I said when your the so called new star and your dominating Raw like he was though pay per views fall under his responsibility for the most part. Now Cena has some responsibility as does Triple H, Del Rio, and Nash.

The funny part is Vann I've never soley blamed CM punk for anything I've multiple times pointed out that its the Writing team's fault for ever starting this type of storyline they were never going to be able to manage int he first place. I've never said CM Punk is 100% responsible for the struggles of the past 8 months however he's the main constant throughout this and he's struggled. Your the one who has gone 30 different directions to avoid ever saying CM punk has sucked as a lead face character. Its always someone elses fault

The funny part is that you always base your arguments on two things... [1] what other people say (which you never have any quotes to verify)... and [2] things you call "facts" (like here, thinking CM Punk has been WWE Champ for the last 7 months)... When you do that, it doesn't matter what your point is because it's based off of nothing...

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Donny: "It's Dirk fucking Benedict!"... Dirk: "I seldom use my middle name."

I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to see CM Punk has been a total disaster. Even his fans have to admit since his Cena feud his pop and overness has gone down the toilet.

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yeah blah blah stop changing the subject where not talking about Xtremefalls were talking about Vann

Then stop trying to make points that are based off of nothing or "facts" that aren't actually facts... Is this supposed to be a fictional conversation we're having, being written for some other purpose and not actually for discussion?... How can you discuss something when you bring up things that people supposedly say but can't prove, or facts that are out and out wrong, without actually calling you on it?... That makes no sense...

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Donny: "It's Dirk fucking Benedict!"... Dirk: "I seldom use my middle name."

Again were not talking about me Vann, were talking about you

Really?... Is this how you deflect from the fact that you can't actually back up anything you say?...

Awesome...

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Donny: "It's Dirk fucking Benedict!"... Dirk: "I seldom use my middle name."

Get your head out of your ass.

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CAUTION. You are entering a NO SPIN ZONE!

No I could easily answer but I ask you something why can't you admit CM Punk has responsibility for his failures?

So I'm not talking about myself because I'm asking you a question

Ah... You're just choosing to ignore how dumb you sound... Got it?...

Well, as I've always said, it's a testament to how good he is that he's still as over as he is after the way he's been booked since August... Also - as I've said before - if they hadn't cut the nuts off his character (coming back so soon, losing the belt because of a 50+ year old near-invalid and never getting his revenge, jobbing to a part time wrestler and then made to look like a bitch by tagging with the same guy and losing then as well, then being put in a feud w/ a black hole of charisma that doesn't wrestle and maybe only 5% of the audience had ever heard of)... If they hadn't done all that and things still were what they are, then yes... I'd blame it on Punk. But I can't ignore that those things happened... And I can't ignore that he had no power over any of them happening... Therefore I can't blame him for any failure (perceived by you or otherwise) because those are the main reasons that things are where they are today...

Now, are you gonna still ignore the fact that you can't back up what you say?...

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Donny: "It's Dirk fucking Benedict!"... Dirk: "I seldom use my middle name."

I miss Lagana's podcast. It was good stuff. I'd rather have his podcast than TNA if I'm being honest.

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So again your basically stating that CM Punk has ZERO responsibility for the fact that his promos are flat, he ran out of shoot comments after 2 months and he couldn't stay over against other wrestlers?

Also 1) Bringing him back earlier was a hit or miss thing it could go either way no matter how much people want to bitch. Also your invested in Rock vs. Cena at Wrestlemania 28 because thats probably going to be the biggest match in the last 5 years at least so keeping him out was nothing but a distraction. 2) Triple H is 11 time worlds champion, he's the bosses son in law, and CM PUnk is the anti authority character who else is he going to feud with?

I could keep rolling but your basically avoiding the fact that the character was flawed from the get go and the fact that CM punk has wrestled a handful of lack luster pay per view matches, cut some just awful promos, and is a face character who can only say he's the best wrestler in the world and spends more time coming off like a COMPLETE ass hole than an actual face. It takes two to tango and you can't blame everything on everyone else because guess Vann at some point its not everyone else its him.

Also about me using me slipping and saying Champion for 7 months is just trying to twist words and I'm not getting into that type of arguement

What in the name of God are you talking about? Those are the only kinds of arguments you get involved in.

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gee I don't know Duane maybe you could scroll up and see instead of commenting?

#XTmissedthepointofthatpost

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Again if you scrolled up you would see I didn't bring that up Vann did

What is so amazing is that you don't even realize you're starting one of those arguments right now.

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That's your opinion... Cool...

As far as bringing him back early, hindsight is 20/20. But they did what they did... It missed... It's on them, not him... And you don't have to bring the Rock up... There was a LOT of time between MITB and WrestleMania... Even a ton of time between MITB and Survivor Series... "Punk being a distraction" is just an excuse and a weak one at that...

If you had paid attention, it's not that he feuded w/ the guy, it's that he lost to him and was made to look like a bitch in more ways than one...

With what? More of the same?... Why bother?

At some point, yes... Right now it's still "everyone else" Most guys would be dead as a doornail if they were booked like him, but he's still getting a strong reaction and is apparently selling a lot of merch... That's amazing, considering...

I'm not surprised because you know it's not twisting your words... You said: Yeah... I'd back off from that one, too...

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Donny: "It's Dirk fucking Benedict!"... Dirk: "I seldom use my middle name."

Thats my opinion just like losing to Triple H made him look like a bitch is your opinion, now I don't even remeber the match because guess what I didn't care enough to watch it since unlike a lot of people on this message board I don't watch pay per views I have no interest in seeing. As for holding him off yeah 20/20 just like we could have said if they brought him back say Night of Champions and he lost all of his momentum. You have no idea how that would have turned out no matter what they did. They brought him back and still put a lot of effort into the character it failed. That happens but if CM punk was as great as some are trying to make him he'd be able to push through that.

Also he is dead as a doornail do you see anyone even talking about Jericho vs. CM Punk at Wrestlemania? I sure as hell haven't, its a blip on the radar and this continual need to avoid placing any blame on him for not being able to rise to the occasion is just laughable.

As for your last part seriously your splitting hairs over words when in reality CM Punk was champion or featured in the main event for most if not all of though shows. If your getting the major push your responsible for the results

Neither do I. I didn’t see it till it came on Classics this month. And while it is an opinion, the fact is that he lost to a guy that doesn’t wrestle full-time, then magically put into a tag-team w/ the same guy he just had a very personal feud with, takes the pin for that team, and then the guy he never beats is the one to go on and get revenge against the guy that cost him the title (who he never got revenge against). Him being treated like a “bitch” is my opinion, but the fact is he was not presented well for a guy (as you say below) “was champion or featured in the main event for most if not all of though shows”… All of that goes into how well his “push” goes. To ignore the situations he was put in is completely short-sighted…

I'm not talking about "what ifs" or "but ifs", XT... I'm talking about what they actually did... The fact is, they didn’t hold off and it failed. And the “effort” they put into his character – as you say – is described above… Their effort was weak, so that’s the kind of character they got… It’s pretty simple… I'm not saying that if he went over Hunter strong it would have been huge... I'm saying that what they did made him look weak, so it's no wonder things turned out the way they did...

That's the thing, though, he should be as dead now, but his reactions and the merchandise he apparently sells say otherwise… But you’re right, the thing w/ Jericho is a blip on the radar. The main focus of WM this year is obviously Cena/Rock, w/ Taker/HHH a distant second… Everything else is treated as a blip… Not sure how you can blame that on Punk, too…

So was Cena… You could say Del Rio was, too… Yet it’s interesting that all your focus is squarely on Punk…

**And it's not "splitting hairs" when the "facts" you use to back up your points are inaccurate. It actually says a lot about the methods you use when debating...

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Donny: "It's Dirk fucking Benedict!"... Dirk: "I seldom use my middle name."

Listen to the pop when he hit Lauranitis with the GTS. You say it made him look weak how it was built but in some respects that was the point. He's doing things akin to stone cold mid to late 90s. The company is against him, the boss is against him and it's about him pulling wins out regardless. So when he finally dropped Johnny Ace and the board told him to watch his ass to keep his job, it was McMahon era with a twist, and frankly, that nod back to the old school at least for my generation got over rather well.

Yeah he wasn't presented well at all, they had only had him beat John Cena, verbally rip Vince McMahon, Triple H, Kevin Nash, and John Cena to their face and they didnt' respond but your right they didn't anything with this character. Vann unlike you I don't live off the delusion that every result matters and people who aren't cheering him now are saying "well I liked the character and all but that lost to Triple H at Night of CHampions really killed it for me" also I'm pretty sure at no point was he defeated cleanly 1-2-3.


Or it failed because you had a guy who left as a face come back as a heel and cut shoot promos that were clearly out of gas and half your audience don't care about. Also again CM Punk's push is not as important as Rock vs. Cena and your WWE Championship is more valuble than to allow someone to stay off TV with it for months at a time.


His reactions aren't that good go watch the promo with him Daniel Bryan and Ryder standing int he ring multiple times he tries to get a rise out of the crowd and quickly switches his point because you could hear a pin drop. Also his merchandise is selling with the same people he would have sold too regardless thats the sad part. 18-34 year old males cheer him. WHO CARES! That is not a group of fans that do him any favors. Also Mania is clearly focused on Rock and Cena but everytime I see Jericho and Punk do something I get the feeling that fans just don't care and thats a problem. They should at least care.



Vann you want to try and split hairs knock yourself out but your trying to take something and blow it out of proportion.